Author Topic: Germany blocks extension  (Read 23562 times)

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Offline Mary

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Germany blocks extension
« on: Thursday, 19 February, 2015 @ 17:24:21 »
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Germany rejects Greek request for loan extension

Shock announcement from Berlin came after Greece filed formal request to eurozone partners

Germany has rejected Greece’s proposal for an extension of its loans, saying that it fell short of the conditions expected by the rest of the eurozone.

The shock announcement from Berlin came just hours after Greece filed a formal request to its eurozone partners to extend its loan agreement, in the hope of averting a cash crisis.

Eurozone ministers are due to meet on Friday in an attempt to hammer out a deal. It will be their third attempt in 10 days to resolve a standoff that has sent jitters across the continent at the prospect of a messy Greek exit from the single currency.

The European commission had described the Greek proposal – widely seen as a climbdown on some of Greece’s key demands – as a positive sign that could pave the way for compromise.

But Germany said the Greek plan failed to meet eurozone ministers’ demands that Greece stick to its bailout programme – a set of demands laid out on Monday at an acrimonious meeting in Brussels that failed to end the deadlock.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/19/greece-requests-eurozone-loan-extension

Offline HiFi

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #1 on: Thursday, 19 February, 2015 @ 18:16:20 »
Greece has just said "take it or leave it".
You'd guess there'd be a last minute deal - for now anyway......

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #2 on: Thursday, 19 February, 2015 @ 19:35:16 »
It's a helluva poker game.  Looks like some major compromises offered by Tsipras: most notably agreeing to work with the Troika after all, and not running a budget deficit, though aiming for a smaller surplus than required by the Memorandum to pay for some of his social measures.  He is still at this stage looking for a 6 month extension of the debt and possibly still some write-down.  A Guardian commentator describes this as a "white flag over Athens". 

Meanwhile others are stirring the pot saying a Grexit wouldn't be so harmful to the EU as it would have been in 2012, with less risk of "contamination" to other Euro countries and better financial support in place.  Most notable among these is former French President Valery Giscard-D'Estaing who promoted Greece's entry into the EU who now thinks Greece's Eurozone membership was a "mistake".

The major closing positions are the ECB have offered Greece €3.3 bn temporary cash and Berlin have issued a rapid and definite no to Greece's written proposal, leaving the markets jittery. And it's round 3 tomorrow....

Tony

Offline TonyD

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #3 on: Thursday, 19 February, 2015 @ 22:21:10 »
Last time I bothered looking, the EU was a democracy. Who made Germany boss?
You'd never have thought they lost the war, would you?

Offline U4ea

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #4 on: Thursday, 19 February, 2015 @ 23:09:56 »
Money talks!

Offline Aristarches

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #5 on: Friday, 20 February, 2015 @ 10:56:41 »
Money talks!

But its a shouldn't talk in a kraut accent.

Offline Mary

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #6 on: Friday, 20 February, 2015 @ 11:34:00 »
Ze Virld Vor II 'loan' was not enuff, ve vil bleed Greece to death.

Offline HiFi

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #7 on: Friday, 20 February, 2015 @ 15:34:28 »
Greek PM has just said he's certain that he'll get the 6 month deal as Greece can't do any more.........

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #8 on: Friday, 20 February, 2015 @ 19:01:16 »
Although the Guardian site shows Finance Ministers arriving for the meeting Ta Nea reported the start was delayed from 1730 to 1830 (Athens Time), so now underway about 25 minutes.

Ta Nea also quotes Varoufakis as saying "I hope at the end there will be white smoke".  Didn't know he was also standing for Pope!   :unsure:

Remarkably German Bild newspaper says that the "wrong letter" was sent on Thursday containing Greece's proposals.  Apparently it was an earlier draft omitting parts that said Greece would accept bailout conditions.   Apparently Tsipras apologised to Merkel by phone for an "administrative mistake".  Bild is a bit of a rag but it would be amazing to make this up!!!  :blink:

Tony

Tony

Offline Mary

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #9 on: Friday, 20 February, 2015 @ 22:07:15 »
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Eurozone finance ministers have drafted a common text with Greece that Greek and eurozone officials said on Friday could form the basis for an agreement to extend Athens' bailout package.
http://ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_20/02/2015_547517


Quote
Greece and eurozone nations have agreed a deal to extend financial aid after bailout talks, officials said.

Eurozone finance ministers reached an agreement to extend Greece's financial rescue by four months, according to officials on both sides.

The deal removes the immediate risk of Greece running out of money next month.

It also provides a breathing space for the new Greek government to try to negotiate longer-term debt relief with its EU creditors.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31556754


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Eurogroup chairman Jeroen Dijsselbloem said Greece had given “their unequivocal commitment to honour their financial obligations” to creditors.

An agreement has been reached but analysts in Athens are already describing the concessions made by the Greek government as “politically poisonous,” Helena Smith reports.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/live/2015/feb/20/eurozone-ministers-gather-for-crucial-greece-talks-live-updates


Live updates via Guardian link above.

Offline Bluenose

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #10 on: Friday, 20 February, 2015 @ 22:45:11 »
Last time I bothered looking, the EU was a democracy. Who made Germany boss?
You'd never have thought they lost the war, would you?
They certainly won the bloody peace though !

Offline Mary

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #11 on: Saturday, 21 February, 2015 @ 12:36:25 »
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Greek bailout: Germany claims victory as Greece agrees four-month bailout extension
Athens no longer in danger of running out of money but hardline German minister refuses longer deal
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-bailout-greece-and-eurozone-creditors-reach-deal-10060734.html


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Greece’s finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, claimed victory, insisting there was “no substantive difference” between the deal and a Greek compromise text that had been dismissed by Germany’s finance ministry as a Trojan horse for Athens to throw off austerity. “We are going to write our own script on the reforms that need to be enacted,” he said

But the Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, will almost certainly face fierce reaction over the deal, both from hardliners in his radical left Syriza party and from the populist rightwing Anel – his junior partner in the governing coalition – for agreeing to continue with austerity measures as part of the deal, given that he was elected on an anti-austerity programme.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/20/eurozone-chiefs-meet-for-last-ditch-talks-to-avert-greece-cash-crunch


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Reports that Greece sent wrong letter to Eurogroup are imaginary, say gov't sources
http://www.newsbomb.gr/en/story/559070/reports-that-greece-sent-wrong-letter-to-eurogroup-are-imaginary-say-gov-t-sources
« Last Edit: Saturday, 21 February, 2015 @ 12:37:58 by Mary »

Offline Mary

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #12 on: Sunday, 22 February, 2015 @ 15:14:56 »
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Greece debt deal: Reforms will 'combat tax evasion'

Greece will crack down on tax evasion and streamline its civil service in its bid to secure a bailout extension, minister of state Nikos Pappas says.

The government is working on a package of reforms that it must submit to international creditors on Monday.

If the reforms are approved, Greece will be granted a vital four-month extension on its debt repayments.

Mr Pappas said the reforms being proposed would take the Greek economy "out of sedation".

"We are compiling a list of measures to make the Greek civil service more effective and to combat tax evasion," he told Greece's Mega Channel.
http://m.bbc.com/news/business-31574868

Offline Mary

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #13 on: Sunday, 22 February, 2015 @ 16:21:17 »
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Economist Paul Krugman has argued in his latest blog entry that Germany is trying to force the SYRIZA-led government in Greece to abandon its proclamations and stresses that German policy is “objectively pro-Grexit”.
http://www.tovima.gr/en/article/?aid=678993

Offline Mediterranean Man

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #14 on: Sunday, 22 February, 2015 @ 16:36:54 »
What odds that the submission of the Syriza plan on Monday by the Varoufakis is rejected by the Germans?  :nein:
This is far from over in my honest opinion.
An economic game of snakes and ladders!

Offline argo

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #15 on: Sunday, 22 February, 2015 @ 16:58:57 »
I just wonder how Tsipras and Varoufakis will go about cracking down on tax evasion? I think its a case of wishful thinking on the part of lots of people. The Greeks  will be in an even more reluctant frame of mind to declare their correct  taxes when they realise Tsipras and Varoufakis have backed down on all their rhetoric, which they basically have;  logically thats all they could do to remain in the EZ and prevent civil unrest! Interesting times ahead for the Greeks.

Offline HiFi

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #16 on: Sunday, 22 February, 2015 @ 18:57:39 »
I read an article that proposed if you show your unpaid taxes you may get an initial discount of up to 50% whilst a reward will be offered to those whose taxes are up to date. I don't think it's accompanied by a lie detector.

Offline HiFi

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #17 on: Sunday, 22 February, 2015 @ 18:59:37 »
I just wonder how Tsipras and Varoufakis will go about cracking down on tax evasion? I think its a case of wishful thinking on the part of lots of people. The Greeks  will be in an even more reluctant frame of mind to declare their correct  taxes when they realise Tsipras and Varoufakis have backed down on all their rhetoric, which they basically have;  logically thats all they could do to remain in the EZ and prevent civil unrest! Interesting times ahead for the Greeks.

rather than "The Greeks being reluctant to declare their taxes", should read "people living in Greece"
« Last Edit: Sunday, 22 February, 2015 @ 19:07:44 by HiFi »

Offline Aristarches

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #18 on: Monday, 23 February, 2015 @ 11:02:37 »
I just wonder how Tsipras and Varoufakis will go about cracking down on tax evasion? I think its a case of wishful thinking on the part of lots of people. The Greeks  will be in an even more reluctant frame of mind to declare their correct  taxes when they realise Tsipras and Varoufakis have backed down on all their rhetoric, which they basically have;  logically thats all they could do to remain in the EZ and prevent civil unrest! Interesting times ahead for the Greeks.

rather than "The Greeks being reluctant to declare their taxes", should read "people living in Greece"

Gosh, HiFi, you aren't suggesting that there may be expats evading tax, are you?  I am deeply shocked.

Offline Mary

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #19 on: Monday, 23 February, 2015 @ 12:18:02 »
Worry not, Ari. I'm sure that all Brits living out here totally love Greece and do all they can to help Greece



's politicians. After all, if Brit MPs can't live on £60,000 a year how are Greek MPs supposed to manage?

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #20 on: Monday, 23 February, 2015 @ 15:28:16 »
I just wonder how Tsipras and Varoufakis will go about cracking down on tax evasion? I think its a case of wishful thinking on the part of lots of people. The Greeks  will be in an even more reluctant frame of mind to declare their correct  taxes when they realise Tsipras and Varoufakis have backed down on all their rhetoric, which they basically have;  logically thats all they could do to remain in the EZ and prevent civil unrest! Interesting times ahead for the Greeks.

rather than "The Greeks being reluctant to declare their taxes", should read "people living in Greece"

Quite.  Given recent disclosures you could also add "people living in Britain".  Or possibly "rich people living in most countries".  Given that I've lived off earned or pension income all my life I've had no opportunity to not declare income.  And of course pension income is actually taxed twice.

The real issue for Greece/the Eurozone now is what happens after the rhetoric of "both sides won".  It is as Medman says down to what will be agreed in the conditions or "reforms" as they are known euphemistically.  The focus is now Veroufakis' List rather than the Lagarde List and Ta Nea are currently reporting the Greek Government are "optimistic" about a yes from the finance Ministers.  Nevertheless, very far from over IMHO.

Tony

Offline HiFi

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #21 on: Monday, 23 February, 2015 @ 15:39:19 »
The democracy may still kick in between now and when the serious stuff happens in the summer (which is why Germany said 4 months, not 6). Will the people of Greece who voted for change (well some change anyway) be happy with any perceived change. Whilst totally different circumstances, could it be another Egypt where they voted for huge change and then felt massively let down by the change they had voted for and so went on the rampage for another change.......

Offline Mary

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #22 on: Monday, 23 February, 2015 @ 16:05:48 »
According to Krugman, Germany are likely to reject anything and everything the Greek side proposes and I'm wondering if Tsipras et al are quietly hoping that's the case. They've (temporarily) given in on a lot of promises made to voters and could (honestly?) say they agreed to lots of concesions but Germany still gave 'em the shove. Unless there's consensus, for sure both sides will blame the other.

Offline HiFi

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #23 on: Monday, 23 February, 2015 @ 16:19:13 »
Read an article (biased?) about Finance Minister Varoufakis and his lack of diplomacy. Someone at the EU described it as playing chess with a pigeon - he knocks the pieces over, shits on the board and struts around pretending he's won.

Offline Mediterranean Man

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Re: Germany blocks extension
« Reply #24 on: Monday, 23 February, 2015 @ 19:55:10 »
According to Krugman, Germany are likely to reject anything and everything the Greek side proposes and I'm wondering if Tsipras et al are quietly hoping that's the case. They've (temporarily) given in on a lot of promises made to voters and could (honestly?) say they agreed to lots of concesions but Germany still gave 'em the shove. Unless there's consensus, for sure both sides will blame the other.
It would not surprise me that the Greek plan has always been to make the Germans the instigator of the impasse. Germany throw out the Varofoukis proposals and Greece introduces the Drachma on Wednesday morning. On introduction at 9.00am we have parity where 1 Drachma equals I euro. Greece immediately repays all her debts in Drachma at the flick of a switch and consequently no default. The fun will start as the morning unravels and the Drachma falls through the floor on foreign currency exchanges across the World. Immediately imports will become extremely expensive and Greece will once again have to survive on self sufficiency. All those neglected farms and agricultural villages will have a new lease of life. Life would be extremely harsh for millions. But, and it is a huge but! Greece will be in charge of her own destiny.