Author Topic: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade  (Read 32291 times)

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Offline Maik

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'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« on: Wednesday, 21 January, 2015 @ 20:00:44 »
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Microsoft has announced that its next operating system will be offered as a free upgrade to owners of devices running Windows 8, Windows 7 and Windows Phone.

The announcement marks a change in strategy to its previous policy of charging for major updates.

The offer, which is limited to the OS's first year of release, may aid its adoption.

Windows 10 brings the same operating system to devices of all sizes, rather than having different ones for PCs/tablets, mobile phones and the firm's Xbox games console.

One of the features highlighted at the presentation was how Cortana - the voice-controlled digital assistant previously limited to Windows Phone handsets - would now work on PCs.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30924022

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #1 on: Thursday, 22 January, 2015 @ 10:52:29 »
Different tech websites interpreted Microsoft's pricing announcement in different ways, this is from the official MS website:

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We announced that a free upgrade for Windows 10 will be made available to customers running Windows 7, Windows 8.1, and Windows Phone 8.1 who upgrade in the first year after launch.

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.
http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10


If it said "we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of Windows 10" I might understand but what is the 'supported lifetime of the device'? And, just in case it's another dud, will it be possible to roll back to previous OS without reformatting and reinstalling?

Offline TonyD

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #2 on: Thursday, 22 January, 2015 @ 11:10:22 »
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... once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost...

Subtle change indeed. Previous OS'es have been maintained for the lifetime of the Operating System, not the Device.

It's difficult to see how a Device supported platform would work. Would they really be able to code updates based on individual devices? My own laptop has 12 model variants, for instance.

I've not seen any reference to the previous MS statements that they would be changing their pricing/purchase model for the new release of W10. Most commentators suggested a rolling monthly/yearly subscription. Although the "continue to keep it current...at no cost" now suggests otherwise.

Reading between the lines, perhaps W10 (as opposed to "Device") will live on in fully supported perpituity?

How does any of this help XP users (as of Dec 2014, they still outnumbered W8 users) or help MS to retain them as Windows customers?
Might it have made sense to offer those users the W10 upgrade route?

All in all. Clear as mud.
« Last Edit: Thursday, 22 January, 2015 @ 11:24:04 by TonyD »

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 @ 18:40:42 »
Follow-up to this and the Replacement Windows topic:

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In a separate interview, Meyerson told Reuters that the company plans to deliver free Windows 10 upgrades to all customers, even those running pirated versions of Windows. "We are upgrading all qualified PCs, genuine and non-genuine, to Windows 10," Meyerson told Reuters.

A Microsoft spokesperson confirmed via email that the plan to allow free upgrades for non-genuine copies of Windows applies to all markets and is not limited to China.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-to-launch-this-summer-with-free-upgrades-for-pirated-copies/

I'm not totally clear on this but I read it that if you're using a genuine copy of XP or Vista you won't be eligible for a free upgrade but if you're using a pirate copy of Windows 7 (or 8.1) you will.


Offline TonyD

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 @ 20:21:56 »
I'm interpreting that statement the same way...

Seems an XP or Vista user would have two options, but both starting with obtaining an "unauthorised" copy of Win7 or Win8

1) Backup XP or Vista data using MS Easy Transfer (Win7 version) to a USB, DVD or other autonomous device; Install pirated Windows; Update to free WinX; Restore users/data with MS Easy Transfer - however, you'd need to find and reinstall all software to use your data.

2) Create an Image of your XP or Vista (various tools available - VMWare Converter, SysInternals Disk2VHD); Install pirated Windows; Update to free WinX; Install VMWare Player, or Oracle VirtualBox etc; Load your XP or Vista image into the new Virtual Machine (VM) and all data and programs immediately available to run

I already use VirtualBox and have DOS6.22, Win95, WinNT4, Win98.....all the way through to Vista running inside Windows 7 - so I can emulate all the various combinations when dealing with user problems

(yes, I support a DOS6.22 user who logs turnstile clicks at a stadium via an RS232 interface - I installed it in '87)

Either way, there doesn't to be a downside to the WindowsX upgrade, does there? Until MS introduces a monthly/yearly subscription for continuing updates, a few years down the line (just my theory)

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 @ 20:36:25 »
a DOS6.22 user who logs turnstile clicks at a stadium via an RS232 interface

No doubt still doing want he wants it to do.


Until MS introduces a monthly/yearly subscription for continuing updates, a few years down the line (just my theory)

Well...

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Windows 10 is designed to support continuous, rolling updates
http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-to-launch-this-summer-with-free-upgrades-for-pirated-copies/

and MS is going down the yearly subs route with Office 365 Home, so I was wondering the same thing.

Offline TonyKath

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #6 on: Thursday, 19 March, 2015 @ 19:47:11 »
RS232... those were the days! 

Microsoft - an annual/monthly charge - surely not! ;)

Unless they guarantee the pricing model who will sign up??

Tony

Offline BeeTee

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #7 on: Monday, 06 April, 2015 @ 20:54:52 »
Windows 10 downloader for Windows 7 and 8.1 arrives in an update

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In a recent update for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, Microsoft has silently installed Windows 10 downloader which signifies the company is getting prepared to welcome its next big OS – Windows 10. Microsoft released an optional update which states “enables additional capabilities for Windows Update notifications when new updates are available to the user”.

http://news.thewindowsclub.com/windows-10-downloader-windows-7-8-1-arrives-update-76339/

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #8 on: Saturday, 11 April, 2015 @ 14:44:33 »
'Fraid I don't always understand (or, er, care) WTF MS are talking about. First noticed this with Windows 8 and Metro - whatever that was.

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And then it was Windows 8-style. And then it was Modern. And then it was Windows Store. And then it was Universal. And today, Microsoft has decreed that henceforth these apps—which are all ultimately based on Windows Runtime—will be known as Windows apps.

Historically, of course, "Windows apps" (or "Windows programs") referred to standard, Win32-based executables that ran on the Windows desktop. Under the new naming scheme, these Win32 apps will now be called Windows desktop applications.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/dont-call-them-metro-microsoft-rebrands-universal-apps-as-windows-apps/

Then there was the who-gets-Windows-10-for-free-and-for-how-long mystery.

All as clear to me as the sales waffle from some dodgy geezer on the doorstep trying to flog replacement windows, “enables additional capabilities for Windows Update notifications when new updates are available to the user” had me baffled. But, according to The Register, what it means is:

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Microsoft uses Windows Update to force Windows 10 ads onto older PCs
'Recommended update' turns Windows 7, 8 into new OS plug
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/09/microsofts_mystery_update_will_push_windows_10_onto_window_7_8_machines/


Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #9 on: Saturday, 11 April, 2015 @ 22:32:36 »
'Fraid I don't always understand (or, er, care) WTF MS are talking about. First noticed this with Windows 8 and Metro - whatever that was.

Quote
And then it was Windows 8-style. And then it was Modern. And then it was Windows Store. And then it was Universal. And today, Microsoft has decreed that henceforth these apps—which are all ultimately based on Windows Runtime—will be known as Windows apps.

Historically, of course, "Windows apps" (or "Windows programs") referred to standard, Win32-based executables that ran on the Windows desktop. Under the new naming scheme, these Win32 apps will now be called Windows desktop applications.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/dont-call-them-metro-microsoft-rebrands-universal-apps-as-windows-apps/

Then there was the who-gets-Windows-10-for-free-and-for-how-long mystery.

All as clear to me as the sales waffle from some dodgy geezer on the doorstep trying to flog replacement windows, “enables additional capabilities for Windows Update notifications when new updates are available to the user” had me baffled. But, according to The Register, what it means is:

Quote
Microsoft uses Windows Update to force Windows 10 ads onto older PCs
'Recommended update' turns Windows 7, 8 into new OS plug
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/09/microsofts_mystery_update_will_push_windows_10_onto_window_7_8_machines/

I have updates set so that I can choose if and when they are installed. Maybe worth looking out for KB 3035583 and giving it a miss?

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #10 on: Friday, 17 April, 2015 @ 18:47:13 »
Looks as though there have previously been several updates to prepare people's PCs for Windows 10, it should be possible to remove them but may seem a bit fiddly: How to remove Windows 10 upgrade updates in Windows 7 and 8.

Certainly looks like MS are keen to get everyone on to Windows 10 but I can't see them planting anything too pushy on peeps' PCs or there'll be an uproar.

Edit: typo
« Last Edit: Friday, 17 April, 2015 @ 19:16:15 by Maik »

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #11 on: Thursday, 23 April, 2015 @ 19:34:07 »
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Microsoft takes security to a new level with Device Guard

Microsoft announced a new feature called Device Guard that prevents unauthorized or malicious code from executing on a Windows system.

Malware and exploits have a distinct advantage: they always get the first move. Traditional antimalware and security tools are reactive and based on detecting and blocking known threats. A threat can't be known, however, until it exists and affects something or someone first. It's a poor model for defense. Microsoft proposes to change that with Device Guard.

There are already controls in place within Windows that make determinations about whether or not an application can be trusted and should be allowed to execute. The Achilles heel of that approach is that some rootkits and exploits are capable of compromising Windows at the kernel level--below where those decisions are made. That means the malware itself can alter, override, or circumvent those decisions and execute anyway.

Device Guard takes the protection to a new level. It uses technology embedded at the hardware level, combined with virtualization, to separate the decision-making process from the Windows operating system.
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/microsoft-takes-security-to-a-new-level-with-device-guard


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Windows 10 Device Guard: Microsoft's effort to keep malware off PCs
You'll need a machine with the right IOMMU tech

The details are a little vague... but from what we can tell, Device Guard wraps an extra layer of defense around the operating system to prevent malware from permanently compromising a PC.

Device Guard, when enabled by an administrator, checks to see if each and every application is cryptographically signed by Microsoft as a trusted binary before it is allowed to run. Device Guard itself runs in its own pocket of memory with its own minimal instance of Windows, and is protected from the rest of the system by the IOMMU features in the PC's processor and motherboard chipset.

There is, of course, a catch. To get Device Guard working, a supported IOMMU setup must be present in the PC or device. However, AMD and Intel processors, and even certain ARM and MIPS cores, have had IOMMU protection mechanisms built-in for a while now.

When Windows 10 comes out this summer, computer giants such as HP, Lenovo, Acer, and Toshiba, will tout their hardware as Device Guard-capable or Device Guard-ready.

Device Guard-ready systems will have the required IOMMU hardware present, kernel drivers optimized for Device Guard installed, and the security feature enabled. Device Guard-capable devices will have just the IOMMU hardware present, leaving the driver installation and configuration up to the user.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/23/microsoft_windows_10_device_guard


Could be a big step forward against malware, could also be that MS is trying to tie users into the MS Store for signed software.


Offline TonyKath

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #12 on: Friday, 24 April, 2015 @ 18:31:19 »
There would have to be user created whitelist of software otherwise it would get really annoying at best and at worst unusable.

Tony

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #13 on: Saturday, 25 April, 2015 @ 03:25:26 »
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Dustin Ingalls, Microsoft's group program manager for operating system security, told The Register... Device Guard will approve trusted universal apps on Windows 10 desktops, tablets and phones. Applications available from the Windows Store will be signed off and ready to run via Device Guard. Enterprises with legacy apps can send hashes of the executables to Redmond to be signed within minutes, we're told.

"When apps are submitted to the Store, those apps go through vetting and all kinds of checks," Ingalls said.

"But if an enterprise is saying 'Hey, sign this for me,' it will be done with a key that only works for that company. If that enterprise wants to sign bad stuff, they are entitled to do that – we're not trying to say we'll only sign this or that. All we're doing is trying to make it easy for you to get an app signed so the new defenses will allow this piece of software to run."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/23/microsoft_windows_10_device_guard/


Not sure MS will be willing/able to do that for SOHO (Small Office / Home) users, if users can whitelist software then all manner of 'great little freebies' will be running on their PC  :iroll:

Offline TonyD

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #14 on: Saturday, 25 April, 2015 @ 10:18:28 »
Agreed. The little information so far doesn't sound good. I use several "legacy" programs, some dating back to DOS. Wonder if MS will whitelist those for me? No, me neither.

So far, looks as if MS want to consider WinX a starting point for program releases, as opposed to all previous Win releases that one way or another  supported legacy software (compatability mode and VM)

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #15 on: Saturday, 09 May, 2015 @ 08:44:35 »
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Microsoft to stop producing Windows versions

Windows 10 is going to be the last major revision of the operating system.

Jerry Nixon, a Microsoft development executive, said in a conference speech this week that Windows 10 would be the "last version" of the dominant desktop software.

His comments were echoed by Microsoft which said it would update Windows in future in an "ongoing manner".

Instead of new stand-alone versions, Windows 10 would be improved in regular instalments, the firm said.

In a statement, Microsoft said Mr Nixon's comments reflected a change in the way that it made its software.

"Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner," it said, adding that it expected there to be a "long future" for Windows.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340

Offline TonyKath

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #16 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 14:17:48 »
I guess it depends on how frequent the updates are and even more how much they charge us.  I know there are other OSs around but many of worry that we have software that might not run on e.g. Linux. 

Tony

Offline BeeTee

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #17 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 14:26:49 »
I guess it depends on how frequent the updates are and even more how much they charge us.  I know there are other OSs around but many of worry that we have software that might not run on e.g. Linux. 

Tony

This might be worth a read.

 http://news.thewindowsclub.com/windows-10-without-patch-tuesdays-mean-users-78245/

It seems that Microsoft will do away with the Patch Tuesdays.

Offline TonyKath

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #18 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 14:48:16 »
Thanks BeeTee - looks like it will be Patch Anytime!

Tony

Offline U4ea

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #19 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 15:15:11 »


Sorry! Couldn't resist it. ;)

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #20 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 15:36:28 »
we have software that might not run on e.g. Linux.

Windows programs won't run on Linux, well, not unless you use Wine.

Usually there's - free - alternatives for Linux, e.g. LibreOffice instead of MS Office, though if you're accustomed to how e.g. Photoshop works then The Gimp may seem strange and inferior (until you get accustomed to it).

I'm thinking Windows 10 may have to be bl**dy amazing to tempt away users of Windows 7.

Offline expat

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #21 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 18:54:00 »
I have windows 8.1, it is fast but I do not like it! I thought that win 7 was better, I will upgrade to 10, if that is no better then I will revert to Linux and never ever touch windows again, full stop, I have had enough of windows continual updates.

Offline TonyKath

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #22 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 20:04:40 »
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Wine (originally an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator") is a compatibility layer capable of running Windows applications on several POSIX-compliant operating systems, such as Linux, Mac OSX, & BSD. Instead of simulating internal Windows logic like a virtual machine or emulator, Wine translates Windows API calls into POSIX calls on-the-fly, eliminating the performance and memory penalties of other methods and allowing you to cleanly integrate Windows applications into your desktop.

https://www.winehq.org/about/

So that decides it then!   :blink:   (Actually it just about makes sense.)

Tony

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #23 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 23:08:58 »
Actually it just about makes sense.

It does?? :dunno:

Well, it seems to work, anyway :yiamas:
« Last Edit: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 23:10:36 by Maik »

Offline Maik

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Re: 'Free'* Windows 10 upgrade
« Reply #24 on: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 @ 23:53:01 »
'Fraid my interest in and knowledge of Windows 10 is a little lacking but just had a thought after re-reading the link BeeTee posted.

MS want Windows 7 and 8.1 users to upgrade to Windows 10, even offering a free upgrade. If you've got W7 SP1 then, although mainstream support ended 13 Jan this year, you'll get free updates until January 2020. W8.1 users will get extended support until January, 2023. But what happens if those users take the free upgrade? Assuming Windows 10 is to be a rolling release with yearly subs, will they, before their purchased product reaches EOL, be expected to pay yearly subs to continue getting updates?