Author Topic: Referendum poll  (Read 79386 times)

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Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #25 on: Monday, 29 February, 2016 @ 13:10:51 »
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Greece's 'erratic Marxist' Varoufakis advises Labour Party, Corbyn says

Yanis Varoufakis, the self-described "erratic Marxist" who alienated his euro zone colleagues during his time as Greece's finance minister, has secured a new role advising the opposition Labour Party.

Jeremy Corbyn, who has sought to take the party of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown further to the left since he became leader in 2015, said Varoufakis would advise Labour in "some capacity" due to his experience from dealing with the European Union.

"I realise we’re not in the euro zone but it's a question of understanding how we challenge the notion that you can cut your way to prosperity when in reality you have to grow your way to prosperity.

"I think the way Greece has been treated is terrible and we should reach out to them."

Corbyn, who voted against membership in 1975, has said he will campaign to keep Britain in the EU in a June 23 referendum, arguing that membership is the best way to improve social and employment laws.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-labour-varoufakis-idUKKCN0W20R0

Offline johnt7959

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #26 on: Monday, 29 February, 2016 @ 15:32:35 »
Thanks Maik
Showing my age again.

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #27 on: Monday, 29 February, 2016 @ 23:31:50 »
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EU referendum risks British expats’ pensions, health care and public services
Britons leaving on the continent may lose a range of specific rights that are only guaranteed because of EU law

The lives of 2 million UK citizens living, working and travelling in the other 27 Member States would be affected if Britain was to leave the EU, according to an official government’s paper.

Britons leaving on the continent may lose a range of specific rights that are only guaranteed because of EU law. These include the rights to live and work but also access to pensions, health care and public service, the Cabinet office warned in his first official report into the impact of a future Brexit.

"There would be no requirement under EU law for these rights to be maintained if the UK left the EU. Should an agreement be reached to maintain these rights, the expectation must be that this would have to be reciprocated for EU citizens in the UK," the report said.

George Peretz QC, an expert on EU law said... "UK citizens would lose their EU law rights to work, to set up a business, to buy property, to bring family to live with them, not to be deported for trivial offences and so on."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-brexit-could-leave-british-expats-without-access-to-pensions-health-care-and-public-a6903211.html

(Think that sub-header should read, "Britons living on the continent")

Offline TonyD

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday, 01 March, 2016 @ 00:24:08 »
I understand the "access to Health Care" bit. Presumably a reference to the reciprocal arrangement throughout the EU.

But "access to public services"? Why? How?
Presumably there are people from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc who access these services abroad, perfectly well?

As for the scare mongering about access to pensions.....utter gibberish. The only way that would change is if the UK govt altered the current arrangement. Why would there be any need to?

I wish each side would just explain the positive consequence of their position, rather than this current spate of scare stories re. the consequence of voting for the opposition.

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday, 02 March, 2016 @ 12:28:18 »
I wish each side would just explain the positive consequence of their position, rather than this current spate of scare stories re. the consequence of voting for the opposition.

Yes, indeed. At the moment I'm struggling to find a positive for either option. If Britain stays in I suspect it will be regarded by the EU as a British surrender to whatever the EU chooses to dictate (rather like Greece) and if Britain exits I think it may be floundering around without a map and finding paths blocked.

Think I'd still prefer a much reformed EU (way beyond what Cameron's touting as a victory), but that doesn't appear to be an option.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, 02 March, 2016 @ 12:29:51 by Maik »

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday, 02 March, 2016 @ 12:43:42 »
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EU referendum: How British expats in Spain feel about the vote



"We did not vote for federalism, we voted for a common market," protested one.

Richard Tildesley, a man with his ear very much glued to the ground when it comes to political opinion among expats... believes that living on the European mainland has put many people off the EU, however cosmopolitan their lives.

They are not impressed by how EU funds are spent, he believes, thinking the money is wasted on unnecessary projects while neglecting problems that badly need sorting out. Tildesley also argues that expats see the EU as destroying the very aspects of Spanish life that originally drew them to the country.

"What they perceive being created at the moment is a rather bland, pan-European homogenised culture."

Given the strength of opinion on this subject, it is perhaps surprising that so few expats in Spain have actually registered to vote.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35688387

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday, 02 March, 2016 @ 15:33:55 »
And of course British ex-pats would be adding to the authentic Spanish way of life that drew them to the Costas.  And they might even vote for Brexit as there are "too many foreigners" in the UK! 

Ex-pats in Greece are very different IMHO.

I'll get my tin hat now!   ;)

Tony

Offline Aristarches

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #32 on: Thursday, 03 March, 2016 @ 11:20:22 »
And of course British ex-pats would be adding to the authentic Spanish way of life that drew them to the Costas.  And they might even vote for Brexit as there are "too many foreigners" in the UK! 

Ex-pats in Greece are very different IMHO.

I'll get my tin hat now!   ;)

Tony

I totally agree, Tony.  The majority of expats I have met I have met on my travels are in the hot climate of their choice as an extended holiday.  Most of us go for a couple of weeks but they are lucky enough to  be in a position to stay for years.  OK, I'm envious but they have little or no interest in the country or the "way of life" and many can't be bothered to learn the basics of the language - "If they want my business they can bloody well learn to speak English".  I had the misfortune to meet one lady who had spent 10 years in Greece and still didn't know the difference between good morning and a plate of squid.

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #33 on: Thursday, 03 March, 2016 @ 14:30:59 »
Some words I have copied from a post on Facebook, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy.

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Just a short set of figures for anyone mad enough to want to stay in the EU.

In 2015, the UK paid in £13billion to the EU coffers.
We received in return subsidies, grants etc which amounted to £4.5 billion.

So overall we paid in £8.5 billion more than we got back, or £23 million a day.

Imagine what we could do with £23 million every day from the end of June. That's every day for ever not a one off!

Imagine the benefits to businesses and the public alike when we can remove or reduce VAT.

Imagine what having that extra money in everyone's pocket will do for our own economy.

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #34 on: Thursday, 03 March, 2016 @ 20:47:09 »
Some words I have copied from a post on Facebook, so I cannot vouch for the accuracy.

Fair enough. Those who want to believe them will, those who aren't sure how true they are... aren't any the wiser.

I've only had a quick look at this but that quick look suggests (to me) the figures could be accurate:
The UK's EU membership fee

Mind you, right-wingers might not believe what fullfact.org say, anyway. Hey ho!

Even if the figures are correct they're only part of the picture. I think there could be benefits that are difficult to quantify and difficult to explain/understand.

This might not be a great way of explaining it but I haven't got time to think of a better one:

You're the richest person in the world. Nice. You've achieved it be being a right c**t and, while people might show respect out of fear, or toadying, everyone hates you. (That probably doesn't bother you at all).

You're one of the rest of us. Life can be a struggle at times but at least you've got some good mates around you. If they're in the sh*t you help them out. If you're in the sh*t they help you out.

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Imagine what having that extra money in everyone's pocket will do for our own economy.

Yep, we could make the rich richer, build a 12 feet high razor wire fence all around Britain/England (no 3.65 metres, please), build a nuclear war machine in case Johnny European Foreigner invades us... or if the government has a different persuasion... build lots of nice subsidised housing for immigrants, travellers, whoever. It just takes a little imagination.

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #35 on: Thursday, 03 March, 2016 @ 20:55:33 »
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EU unveils €700m emergency aid plan for Greece and other nations hit by refugee crisis
This would be the first time humanitarian cash has been used within Europe instead of helping countries outside the bloc
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12180775/EU-unveils-700m-emergency-aid-plan-for-Greece-and-other-nations-hit-by-refugee-crisis.html


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At least 30,000 people fleeing conflict or poverty in the Middle East and beyond are bottled up in Greece after Western Balkan states effectively closed their borders. Up to 3,000 more are crossing the Aegean every day despite rough winter seas.

The influx is severely straining the resources of a country barely able to look after its own people after a six-year recession - the worst since World War Two - that has shrunk the economy by a quarter and driven unemployment above 25 percent.

After years of austerity imposed by international lenders, who are now demanding deeper cuts in old-age pensions, ordinary Greeks say they feel abandoned by the European Union.

A staggering 92 percent of respondents in a Public Issue poll published by To Vima newspaper last Sunday said they felt the EU had left Greece to fend for itself.

The poll was taken before the European Commission announced 300 million euros in emergency aid this year to support relief organizations providing food, shelter and care for the migrants. But such promises do little to soften public anger.

In mid-February, Greece briefly threatened not to sign off on final agreements at an EU summit on amending Britain's membership terms unless Athens won assurances that EU states would not shut their borders. They did so anyway.

How Greece and the migrant crisis are handled may resonate at the other end of the continent in Britain, where voters will decide in a June 23 referendum whether to stay in the bloc.

James Ker-Lindsay, a Balkans expert at the London School of Economics, said leftist academics in Britain - a small but influential group typically supportive of the EU - were so dismayed by Brussels' treatment of Greece in 2015 that it would not take much to alienate them completely.

"If it looks like a double dose harsh treatment, the euroscepticism which is coming in very strong from right-wing parties across the EU could start being repeated on the left, but for a very different reason," Ker-Lindsay said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-greece-idUSKCN0W51WT

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #36 on: Friday, 04 March, 2016 @ 00:18:34 »
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MEPs allowed to claim £120,000 in expenses without proof of how money is spent
A court heard EU officials don't want to saddle MEPs with an 'administrative burden' which would hamper their freedom
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12182738/MEPs-allowed-to-claim-120000-in-expenses-without-proof-of-how-money-is-spent.html

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday, 08 March, 2016 @ 10:58:26 »
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Britain to pay £500 million under EU's grand migrant swap plan for Turkey
Thousands of Syrian refugees could be taken from Turkey and resettled in Europe, under "one-for-one" migrant swap deal

Tens of thousands of Syrian refugees will be taken directly from Turkey to Europe in a “one-for-one” swap with those on the Greek islands, in a highly ambitious bid to contain Europe's worst migrant crisis since the Second World War.

The grand bargain drawn up in Brussels - and agreed in principle at midnight on Monday - is intended to end the deadly Aegean sea crossings and encourage refugees to stay in Turkish camps by offering them the prospect of a flight direct to the EU.

British taxpayers will pay £500 million in aid, up from an initial £250 million agreed in October as EU leaders acceded to Turkey’s surprise demand to double its pay outs to €6 billion (£4.6 billion) by the end of 2018.

In a basket of sweeteners handed to Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish prime minister, five new chapters of the long-running talks on Turkey’s accession to the EU will be opened.

And from June, 77 million Turks will be able to access to the EU’s Schengen zone for 90 days without a visa under a significant relaxation of the rules. That is four months earlier than envisaged in talks last year.

Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president, under the proposals any attempts by migrants to reach Greece by boat "will land you back in Turkey and at the bottom of the resettlement list".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12185806/EU-leaders-meet-to-discuss-migrant-crisis-latest.html

Offline TonyD

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday, 08 March, 2016 @ 23:50:21 »
Perhaps the EU leader's calculators all failed at the same time....

So the transaction with Turkey is, return 1 or 2 million refugees/migrants/asylum seekers/chancers reaching Greece "unmanaged" and get 1 or 2 million "managed" refugees back in return. Buy One, Get a Different One Free

And, in return for their "help" 77 million Turks get unrestricted access to the whole of the (Schengen) EU

Doner Kebab anyone?
« Last Edit: Wednesday, 09 March, 2016 @ 00:10:12 by TonyD »

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday, 09 March, 2016 @ 00:05:50 »
Hm, yes, seems flavour of the month to bitch about Greece having a border like a sieve, how strong will the EU's border be (not to the 77 million Turkish nationals but to refugees/migrants/asylum seekers/chancers) if Turkey is admitted?

Offline Bluenose

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday, 09 March, 2016 @ 02:44:13 »
The Turks have a smile like a Cheshire Cat at the moment as they hold all the aces. As the nimby movement continues to grow across the EU Turkey will continue to take full advantage and slowly creep in through the back door without all of the regulations that the rest of the EU have to endure.

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday, 09 March, 2016 @ 18:48:31 »
I still reckon the EU will continue to string Turkey along and then pull the (Turkish) carpet out from under them.   ;)

Tony

Offline Colleywobble

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday, 09 March, 2016 @ 18:55:38 »
I really hope so. Smarmy ?

Offline TonyD

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday, 09 March, 2016 @ 19:36:08 »
My own observation;

Having Turkey in the EU would permit direct road access to the ME, would allow for an EU owned/managed TransEuropean oil supply pipeline, would allow for military planes to reach the ME without needing overfly permission, would introduce millions of muslims to Europe.
All of those issues are supposed to minimise the risk of war.

Once Turkey has established refugee camps holding 2 or 3 million (possibly many more now there's a precedent of guaranteed EU access, as per the new agreement) it has all the Aces.

That's quite a good hand for Turkey to hold in the event someone doesn't come up with the goods

Good job the British government isn't wasting time debating minor issues, like whether shops should be able to stay open longer hours on a Sunday

Offline Bluenose

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday, 09 March, 2016 @ 22:20:43 »
Spot on TonyD.  Even thought of running for the European Parliament?  Pays well,full expenses  (no daft receipts required ) and generous holiday and retirement package lobbed in !

Offline Mediterranean Man

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #45 on: Thursday, 10 March, 2016 @ 00:23:56 »
If Turkey joining the E.U isn't a pivotal moment, I don't know what is? I'm out! 

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #46 on: Thursday, 10 March, 2016 @ 20:05:36 »
Spot on TonyD.  Even thought of running for the European Parliament?  Pays well,full expenses  (no daft receipts required ) and generous holiday and retirement package lobbed in !

You might have to sit next to Nige, though.  :unsure:

Tony

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #47 on: Friday, 11 March, 2016 @ 02:31:58 »
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EU and Turkish leaders agreed in principle on Monday that Ankara would prevent people from leaving its shores for Europe in exchange for more help for refugees living in Turkey, visa liberalisation for Turks visiting Europe and accelerating Turkey's long-dormant EU accession talks.

...an agreement that has stirred resistance in some countries, not least due to concerns over Turkey's record on human rights and press freedom.

EU officials also say Turkey, a country of 75 million, only meets about half of more than 70 technical requirements for visa-free travel with Europe.

Under Monday's tentative deal, Turkey would take back all migrants crossing to Europe who are ineligible for asylum as well as everyone - including those fleeing wars and hence eligible for international protection - fished out from the sea before reaching EU shores.

But the forcible mass repatriation of migrants to Turkey would be difficult to implement, not least because many will have risked their lives and spent large sums of money to get to Europe in the first place.

However, EU officials said just a few returns should be sufficient to convince the migrants they stood no chance of being allowed to stay and to agree to be sent back to Turkey.

The interior ministers meeting in Brussels will also discuss plans for a common EU border and coast guard that the bloc hopes to deploy for the first time in late summer.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/206853/article/ekathimerini/news/eu-ministers-cautious-on-easing-visa-rules-for-turkey-under-migration-deal


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Turkey's European affairs minister Volkan Bozkir said Thursday his country would take back “tens of thousands” of migrants, “not hundreds of thousands or millions”, and they would “not include the existing refugees on the Greek islands”.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/206848/article/ekathimerini/news/netherlands-turkey-eu-refugee-swap-deal-temporary


"EU officials said just a few returns should be sufficient to convince the migrants they stood no chance of being allowed to stay" - just a few people win the lottery but that doesn't stop lots of others from playing it.

"a common EU border and coast guard that the bloc hopes to deploy for the first time in late summer" - stable doors? horses?

Online Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #48 on: Friday, 11 March, 2016 @ 02:42:47 »
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Reality Check: Did the UK lose its sovereignty in 1972?
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35766434

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #49 on: Friday, 11 March, 2016 @ 19:30:18 »
"a common EU border and coast guard that the bloc hopes to deploy for the first time in late summer" - stable doors? horses?

Neigh, Maik, neigh!



Tony