Author Topic: Referendum poll  (Read 79423 times)

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Offline TonyKath

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #50 on: Friday, 11 March, 2016 @ 19:33:14 »
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Reality Check: Did the UK lose its sovereignty in 1972?
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35766434

Think it's saying it depends on how you look at it.  I guess that's the Beeb being neutral, ho hum.  :blink:   But a helpful look at some possible "facts".

Tony


Offline Aristarches

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #51 on: Saturday, 12 March, 2016 @ 11:26:33 »
This campaign is like any other.  Both sides are twisting and misrepresenting "facts", as politicians always do, and with the majority of the print press backing an exit from the EU it is at least helpful that the BBC gives a counter balance to the rhetoric of Boris the Buffon and others.  The tactics of the "Leave" camp would shame Goebbals.  The attempt to use the Queen by the Sun shows what a vile outfit the Murdoch empire is and how low "Leave" campaign is prepared to sink.  The "In" lobby hasn't got started yet.

What we are seeing with this referendum is the final split in the Tory party over Europe.  The Buffoon, Gove and others are looking not at what is best for Britain but what is best for themselves.   Cameron has said that he will not stand for PM after this parliament so there will be a dogfight to see who will take over as PM.  There can  not be any serious suggestion that Corbyn will win the next election.  If Cameron had been for leaving the EU I would  suggest that the Buffoon would have been all for staying in.

Whenever you read or see anyone of either camp talking about the "future of Britain" substitute the phrase for "my  attempt to grab power"   Ask, as Louis Heren once said "Why is this Lying bastard lying to me.

By the way, I am all for leaving the EU which would be clear to anyone using this site over the years.  I just don't like the "Leave" campaigners and the obvious distortions and lies used by them.  If the "In" campaign ever gets going I will probably detest them as much.

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #52 on: Saturday, 12 March, 2016 @ 18:39:30 »
That's probably the most balanced comment from Ari I've ever seen!  :btu:

I reckon if campaigners were truly interested in "what's best for Britain" they would be more prepared to concede the strength of some arguments on the other side.  It's not like it's completely black and white, though in the end a choice has to be made.  I suspect many if not most politicians have a bit of "what's in it for me" though there might even be a bit of principle somewhere for some. 

That is not necessarily a good thing in some cases if the principles are not declared.  For example the boss of the Vote Leave outfit is a cove called Matthew Elliott who previously ran the Taxpayers Alliance, which I was recently surprised to learn was neither an alliance nor represented taxpayers, while marketing itself as a "grassroots organisation".  It is overwhelmingly funded like many other organisations by hidden private donors who are probably very adroit at not paying their taxes.  Its schtick is to lobby perfectly legitimately for small government and low taxes and has made a rather successful play in the rent-a-quote market for many media outlets. When Elliott is not falling out with members of his own organisation or with Nigel Farage is he in fact promoting a political position that voters are not aware of?

I agree about the tactics which appear to be about making the loudest noise.  We've had the Queen (?unwillingly) deployed for "out", while the Archbishop stayed on the fence.  Who next - the Pope, for "in" presumably and then God who might possibly stay silent.  Referendums usually favour the government of the day (e.g. over PR) and the aforementioned Goebbels was rather in favour of them. So those who oppose the Government supported view have to work hard to counterbalance them.  Perhaps it depends on the newspaper you read - I've confessed here many times to the Daily Mail* - but it looks to me that in this instance the "Out" campaign has the extremely voluble guns of the majority of the press blasting away daily, while the Beeb is as neutral as can be, possibly with an eye to the upcoming Charter renewal.

Now and again I have felt there has been some genuine debate with arguments either way being effectively neutralised but mostly just a lot of wild shouting into the air. 

Ho-hum - only another 3 months to go!

Tony

*And I'm for "In".

Offline TonyD

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #53 on: Saturday, 12 March, 2016 @ 20:42:19 »
I'm rather worried the government doesn't appear to be doing anything in preparation for an Out vote.

Offline HiFi

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #54 on: Saturday, 12 March, 2016 @ 21:13:13 »
They're waiting for the late pre-arranged EU updated deal........

Offline TonyD

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #55 on: Saturday, 12 March, 2016 @ 21:57:25 »
A less charitable observation could be - they already know the result

Offline Bryan-in-Kilkis

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #56 on: Sunday, 13 March, 2016 @ 13:04:53 »
Maybe they are just going to do a Tsipras and ignore the result of the referendum completely if it is for leaving.   :oki:

Offline TonyKath

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #57 on: Sunday, 13 March, 2016 @ 14:06:17 »
If they were preparing for an out vote - they wouldn't tell, now  would they??!  My guess is that they would cover all options... but who knows?  :unsure:

Tony

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #58 on: Friday, 18 March, 2016 @ 02:30:38 »

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #59 on: Sunday, 20 March, 2016 @ 19:36:27 »
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Reality Check: Would Brexit cost every household £850?

The UK leaving the European Union would knock £850 off the average UK household's income, according to a report from the Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) at the London School of Economics.

And that's its conclusion taking an "optimistic" view. The pessimistic conclusion from the report is £1,700 per household.

So beyond that, is it true? No, almost certainly not - it's a result of economic modelling.

The problem is that any such predictions involve making big assumptions about what would happen in the event of the UK leaving the EU.

Nobody knows what would happen if the UK were to leave the EU, so well-qualified people are trying to guess. There is little reason to believe they are guessing correctly. Predicting things is a thankless task - remember those opinion polls at last year's general election?

If economic modelling should not be guiding your thinking, then why are we covering it?

Because you can bet your last pound or euro that next week somebody supporting staying in the EU will say in a speech that leaving the EU will cost between £850 and £1,700 per household.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35843953


"Nobody knows what would happen if the UK were to leave the EU"  :hmm: bit of a leap in the dark, then?

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #60 on: Monday, 21 March, 2016 @ 08:44:05 »
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Brexit: what it means for house prices and the supply crisis

A referendum on Britain’s continued membership of the European Union seems far removed from the UK housing market and whether or not an individual decides to buy or sell.

This is the view of analyst Anthony Codling, of the broker Jefferies, who believes that whichever way Britain votes on June 23, build rates will not slow, nor will demand for new homes wane.

The referendum “doesn’t move the needle”, he said. “To the average man on the street, [Brexit] makes no difference. Whether I want to move house or have another child makes no difference in or out of Europe.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/18/brexit-what-it-means-for-house-prices-and-the-supply-crisis/

Offline TonyD

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #61 on: Monday, 21 March, 2016 @ 11:35:33 »
"...Nobody knows what would happen if the UK were to leave the EU..."

and therein lies my concern....it should be known.

There's a distinct possibility we will vote to leave (the Turkish sweeteners have swayed many)
In the event we do leave, it would be criminal if government wasn't prepared from day one.

Something we DO know;

In 2015 the UK paid £13 billion to the EU, and EU spending on the UK was £4.5 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was approx £8.5 billion. There you go. We'll be at least £8.5 billion better off.

So perhaps we should leave. Use the savings to pay down the deficit AND increase public spending.
Then, once there's a sizeable sum in the piggy bank, we could apply to re-join the EU.

Oh, that's right, it's a once only deal. The EU won't have us back in. Yeah, right!

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #62 on: Monday, 21 March, 2016 @ 15:59:23 »
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In 2015 the UK paid £13 billion to the EU, and EU spending on the UK was £4.5 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was approx £8.5 billion. There you go. We'll be at least £8.5 billion better off.

8.5 billion is a difficult figure to grasp. Much easier to think what could be done with £23 million every single day of the year!

Offline HiFi

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #63 on: Monday, 21 March, 2016 @ 16:17:42 »
Give everyone 28p?

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #64 on: Monday, 21 March, 2016 @ 19:13:25 »
"...Nobody knows what would happen if the UK were to leave the EU..."

and therein lies my concern....it should be known.

Tend to agree with you there.

I also think we shouldn't have to imagine what "we" could do with all the money we'd save.

Are the out campaigners saying WE WILL put this money into the NHS, education, police?

Or are they just asking us to imagine that's what might happen to it, like, imagine you've won the lottery?

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #65 on: Sunday, 27 March, 2016 @ 02:47:19 »
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Brexit campaigners say Easter eggs will be cheaper if Britain leaves EU
'Consumers will be hopping mad to find out that the EU is actually making Easter more egg-spensive'

Spokesman Robert Oxley said: 'Pro-EU campaigners are constantly rabbiting on about the supposed benefits provided by the EU.

"But consumers will be hopping mad to find out that the EU is actually making Easter more egg-spensive."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/brexit-campaigners-say-easter-eggs-will-be-cheaper-if-britain-leaves-eu-a6954156.html

 :bun1:

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #66 on: Tuesday, 29 March, 2016 @ 14:31:20 »
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Brexit 'would trigger exodus of British expats from Europe'
Britons living abroad in the EU are reportedly worried about the consequences of voters opting to leave the bloc

British expats in Europe are reportedly concerned about the repercussions of Britain leaving the EU, with experts predicting an exodus from the continent if voters opt to leave the bloc.

Access to healthcare, the value of pensions and the right to study overseas are among the fears British citizens abroad harbour, The Times reported.

Already 100 British residents of Spain leave the country every day amid fears over the region's economic woes, it said.

France has warned that if Britain opted to leave the EU in the June 23 referendum, Britons would no longer be able to access public healthcare.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12206186/Brexit-would-trigger-exodus-of-British-expats-from-Europe.html

"The Times reported"  :hmm: The Times seemed to have it's on agenda when it came to the Greek crisis, some very dodgy reporting.

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #67 on: Thursday, 31 March, 2016 @ 00:35:29 »
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British public must be told truth about immigration figures ahead of EU referendum, says watchdog
Exclusive: Office for National Statistics instructed to tell the public whether official immigration data "falls short of providing a full picture"

The British public must be told the truth about migration ahead of the EU referendum, the Office for National Statistics has been warned, amid concerns official figures may be wrong.

 The letter revealed the UKSA’s concerns focus on differences between ONS migration figures and data produced by other government departments - which have shown a discrepancy of more than a million EU migrants over the last five years.

Since June 2010, 904,000 EU nationals moved to Britain, according to ONS data, but in comparison the DWP issued 2.25 million National Insurance numbers – a variation of 1.3 million – over the same period.

 In the most recent ONS migration figures, published last month, overall immigration including non-EU nationals was put at 617,000 in the 12 months to the end of September 2015.

In comparison, data from the Department for Work and Pensions showed it handed out 828,000 National Insurance Number registrations to foreign-born nationals in 2015.

Although the figures cover slightly different time periods, they showed a potential discrepancy of more than 200,000 over just one year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12207625/British-public-must-be-told-truth-about-immigration-figures-ahead-of-EU-referendum-says-watchdog.html

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #68 on: Monday, 04 April, 2016 @ 20:06:25 »
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Analysis: The mechanics of leaving the European Union

Picture the scene: it's 08:00 on Friday 24 June*, and a weary David Cameron marches to the microphones outside Downing Street to react to the referendum vote to leave the EU.

Ignoring shouted questions about whether he will resign, he reprises his reaction to his shock Commons defeat over Syria in 2013. "The will of the British people is clear," he says, "I get it and I will negotiate accordingly to implement their clear decision."

Suppose that, or something like that, happens. What next, for the government and for Parliament? How would MPs deliver the decision the British people had just voted for?

The first point to make is that the process cannot easily be separated from the political mayhem that would then unfold.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35946617

Offline U4ea

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #69 on: Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 @ 01:42:24 »
Wouldn't it strengthen the UK's position if interim measures for Brexit were discussed and put in place?

This would show the EU that the Country is series about the Referendum and could vote to leave if the new terms negoiated are not regarded as good enough by the electorate.

Cameron has made it clear he wants to stay in. If he believes he has done the best he can then he is of course entitled to campaign for staying in, but I beleve the Brexit negoiations should have already taken place and then we could  vote with full knowledge of  the options.

Without knowing the Brexit terms it's a loaded vote.

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #70 on: Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 @ 03:02:43 »
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EU referendum: 'Project Fear' working as poll shows Remain taking a narrow lead

David Cameron's campaign to warn voters about the dangers of leaving the European Union is beginning to win the argument ahead of the referendum, a Telegraph poll finds.

The exclusive poll finds that the “Remain” campaign now has a narrow lead after trailing last month, in a sign that Downing Street’s tactic – which has been described as “Project Fear” by its critics – is working.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/04/eu-referendum-project-fear-working-as-poll-shows-remain-taking-a/

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #71 on: Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 @ 09:35:23 »
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Reality Check: Are NI numbers a good migration measure?

It's not hard to see how the two sets of figures would be different. The question is, should they vary this much...?

Reality Check verdict: There are good reasons why the two numbers would be different, but they are strikingly far apart, and next month's figures showing how many of the numbers are active should help reconcile the two.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35959949

Offline Mediterranean Man

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #72 on: Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 @ 12:28:07 »
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EU referendum: 'Project Fear' working as poll shows Remain taking a narrow lead

David Cameron's campaign to warn voters about the dangers of leaving the European Union is beginning to win the argument ahead of the referendum, a Telegraph poll finds.

The exclusive poll finds that the “Remain” campaign now has a narrow lead after trailing last month, in a sign that Downing Street’s tactic – which has been described as “Project Fear” by its critics – is working.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/04/eu-referendum-project-fear-working-as-poll-shows-remain-taking-a/
I remember it wasn't that long ago that a hung parliament was being forecast by the same source. Too close to call was one of the media headlines. Well, we all know what happened then!

Offline Aristarches

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #73 on: Tuesday, 05 April, 2016 @ 13:12:37 »
If the Telegraph admits a slight lead for Remain I expect the real figure shows an overwhelming majority want to stay in the EC.

After the pollster's abject failure at the last election who can take their efforts seriously?

Offline Maik

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Re: Referendum poll
« Reply #74 on: Thursday, 07 April, 2016 @ 08:22:52 »
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The great cabbage myth

It has been suggested recently that there are 26,911 words of European Union regulation on the sale of cabbage. The claim is not true, but it has a long and interesting history.

With a referendum on UK membership of the European Union just around the corner, this cabbage statistic is proving rather popular on social media. It's cited as evidence that the EU is too bureaucratic and exerts excessive control over its members.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35962999