Author Topic: Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor  (Read 713 times)

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Offline Maik

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Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor
« on: Wednesday, 11 December, 2019 @ 06:41:59 »
Quote
By Boris Johnson
17 Oct 2002

Some of my most joyous hours have been spent in a state of semi-incoherence, composing foam-flecked hymns of hate to the latest Euro-infamy: the ban on the prawn cocktail flavour crisp; the billions spent to export unsmokable Greek tobacco to the Third World; the European Commission's plot to scrap our double-decker buses; the tense international row over the dimensions of the Euro-condom.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3582944/Im-no-longer-Nasty-but-please-stop-lying-about-Nice.html

Except... there never was a ban on prawn cocktail flavour crisps, Greek tobacco is really quite smokeable, there was never an EU plan to scrap 'our' double decker buses, nor was the EU involved in any plan for a one-size fits all condom. Nor was there an EU plan to ban bent bananas or curved cucumbers. You don't have to believe me, or this Guardian article from 2016 - you can check other independent sources.

The truth has no meaning to Boris Johnson. Conservative supporters may not like me stating that but let's look at a few facts:
Johnson was sacked by The Times newspaper after fabricating a quote. He was sacked as Conservative party vice-chairman and shadow arts minister after refusing to resign for lying about an affair with Spectator columnist Petronella Wyatt. In 2016, prior to the Brexit referendum, he lied about the UK sending £350 million a week to the EU. The UK Statistics Authority criticised Boris Johnson for “a clear misuse of official statistics”. Nevertheless, Johnson repeated the lie in a Daily Telegraph article published 15 September 2017. In August this year he lied to the Queen when he advised Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament. He denies that, but he's a proven liar and the Supreme Court judges unanimously concluded his action was illegal. There's also some serious suggestion he was shagging Jennifer Arcuri, an American 'businesswoman', in return for preferential trading treatment.

Sadly, he's not alone in the Conservative party. In the run up to the election the Conservative party doctored a Good Morning Britain TV interview of Labour's Keir Starmer, presenter Piers Morgan later stated the way the video was edited by the Tories was “misleading and unfair”.

During a TV debate between Boris Johnson and Labour's Jeremy Corbyn the Conservative party renamed one of its Twitter accounts from CCHQ to factcheckUK. In fact, it lied in its support of claims made by Boris Johnson.

The Conservative party has also set up a couple of websites and given them names that might attract Labour voters, labourmanifesto.co.uk containing misinformation and margaretbeckett.com, a promotional piece for her Tory rival in Derby South. They also bought Google ads for searches such as “the Labour Party” so that searches were directed to their fake site.

Conservative supporters - or some of them - are happy to label as fake what is actually fact: a four year old boy was sleeping on the floor at Leeds General Infirmary due to a bed shortage. There are claims on social media that the story was fabricated but it wasn't. The story was first carried by the Yorkshire Evening Post, a reputable local newspaper who fact checked the story before publishing. LGI acknowledged the truth of it / Editor hits back at fake news claims over boy sleeping on hospital floor.

Bizarrely, when confronted by a reporter Boris Johnson refused to look at a picture of the boy on the floor, instead taking the reporter's mobile 'phone and putting it in his pocket.

To deflect attention from Boris Johnson, two senior Tories leaked a story about a Labour activist assaulting a Conservative party worker outside LGI. The West Yorkshire Police had no knowledge of the alleged assault and, as it happened, the incident was caught on video. The party worker wasn't looking where he was going and walked into an outstretched hand - video here.

It isn't only the Labour party getting targetted for dirty tricks, Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson and her husband Duncan Hames were alleged to have benefitted from EU grants in a fake news story.

Nor is it only the Conservative party doing the dirty, Labour and the Lib Dems have been accused, too, but it's very minor - you can read about it on cnn.com.

Boris Johnson is obviously a really nice guy while Jeremy Corbyn is, equally obviously, an IRA supporting comrade of Putin. Well, that's the impressions I get from the Conservative campaign. And I'm sure they wouldn't say these things if they weren't true.


Democracy requires free debate of the known facts. When one side (or both) side presents disinformation - lies - as the truth then democracy dies.


Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor
« Reply #1 on: Thursday, 12 December, 2019 @ 08:53:17 »
I have not posted any political stuff on Farcebook or anywhere else until now, but I would be interested to know the truth of these statements.

Jeremy Corbyn literally:

1. Invited muslim hate preacher Sheikh Raed Salah to tea in parliament after the UK tried to deport him.

2. Called Salah an “honoured citizen” after he called for a ‘global caliphate’ and said ‘Allah will grant us victory’.

3. Called terror groups Hamas and Hezbollah 'friends'.

4. Refused 5 times to condemn murders by the IRA when questioned during an interview with the BBC.

5. Said that terrorists should "not necessarily" serve their full prison term after the London Bridge attack.

6. Sat on the editoral board of a magazine that praised the IRA’s Brighton bombings.

7. Voted against airstrikes on Islamic State.

8. Attended a wreath ceremony for members of the terrorist group who carried out the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre.

9. Said he's 'not happy' with UK police or security services operating a shoot-to-kill policy.

10. Was ‘appalled’ after Labour shadow foreign secretary Hillary Benn made a speech in favour of airstrikes against the Islamic State.

11. Had such close ties with the IRA that MI5 opened a case file on him.

12. Attended rallies honouring IRA terrorists.

13. Accepted £20,000 to appear on the Iranian regime propaganda TV channel which is banned in the UK.

14. Rushed to the defence of a cleric who blamed Israel for 9/11 after the Church of England reprimanded them.

15. Insisted the Soviet Union was "no real threat" and North Korea is "not a rogue state" in a 2003 book.

16. Called the assassination of Osama bin Laden a "tragedy".
 

Offline Maik

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Re: Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor
« Reply #2 on: Thursday, 12 December, 2019 @ 14:17:10 »
It wouldn't surprise me how many of those were true, Roger. Corbyn hasn't got much appeal, other than that he'd probably tell you quite honestly which of those - if not all - are true. And which have some truth in them but have been contorted into lies. This might be of interest (or, er, it might not). We might not agree with Corbyn but, unlike Johnson, he probably wouldn't lie about it.

What surprises me is that the Conservative party haven't made more of those accusations, if they are true. As it is, they read like Daily Mail propaganda. The Independent Press Standards Organisation recently ruled that, back in June, the Mail on Sunday made false claims about Labour's tax plans. The Mail on Sunday must now publish Ipso’s ruling on page 2 of its print edition and on the top half of its website for 24 hours. However, the MoS has sought a review so publication of the correction has been delayed until after the election.

The Daily Mail was devised by Alfred Harmsworth (later Viscount Northcliffe) and his brother Harold (later Viscount Rothermere). Lord Rothermere was a friend of Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, and directed the Mail's editorial stance towards them in the early 1930s. Rothermere's 1933 leader "Youth Triumphant" praised the new Nazi regime's accomplishments, and was subsequently used as propaganda by them. Rothermere and the Mail were also editorially sympathetic to Oswald Mosley and the British Union of Fascists. The Mail opposed the arrival of Jewish refugees escaping Germany, describing their arrival as "a problem". On 5 May 1946, the Daily Mail celebrated its Golden Jubilee. Winston Churchill was the chief guest at the banquet and toasted it with a speech.

If we're playing guilt by association I guess that makes Churchill a Nazi fascist.

I haven't had time to check all those on your list for you, Roger, but starting with the first:

In 2011, Salah entered the United Kingdom, but it was then found that he had been banned a few hours previously. He was arrested, but his ban was overturned by an immigration court. A judicial review of Britain's June arrest took place on September 30, 2011; the English High Court ruled that Salah was entitled to damages due to "wrongful detention".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raed_Salah

The newspapers probably referred to this as Britain going soft on terrorists (and probably all the fault of the EU) - but you shouldn't believe all the b*ll*x you read in newspapers.

Reading through the Wikipedia article I think calling him a hate preacher might go down well with Zionists but may be wide of the mark, as would be calling him a terrorist.

As I understand it, when the modern state of Israel was created in Palestine around 90% of the population were native Palestinians. Rather like the situation was in South Africa, they were - and are - treated as inferior subjects. Criticise the state of Israel and you're labelled anti-Semitic.

Nelson Mandela and Steve Biko - internationally respected freedom leaders or terrorists?

Getting back on topic, which was Boris Johnson being a liar, it seems to have spread to the Conservative leadership: according to an article in the Independent, "88 per cent of the most widely circulated Tory ads during the first four days of December included inaccurate claims, according to disinformation tracking organisation First Draft... The new findings come as the Conservatives have dramatically stepped up their spending on Facebook ads: the party has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds alone for ads on the site through the election period."

Paid or unpaid, the mainstream media in general likes to portray Labour in a bad light and there's a fairly short and quite amusing (in a way) article on vice.com: A History of Labour as a 'Terrifying National Threat'

I'm sure Jeremy Corbyn would nationalise your cats and eat your children.
« Last Edit: Thursday, 12 December, 2019 @ 14:32:57 by Maik »

Offline HiFi

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Re: Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor
« Reply #3 on: Thursday, 12 December, 2019 @ 15:57:35 »
Let's keep it brief...and honest.
Corbyn's a knob.

Offline Maik

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Re: Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor
« Reply #4 on: Thursday, 12 December, 2019 @ 16:39:50 »
While we're describing people thus: if Corbyn's a knob, is Johnson an a--e or a c--t?

Or both at the same time!?!

Mind you, have to wonder how Labour couldn't find someone more appealing than Corbyn to be leader, let's be honest about it!


Offline Maik

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Re: Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor
« Reply #5 on: Sunday, 15 December, 2019 @ 05:39:29 »
Been a fairly bright but cold, snowy/sleety day here so I've had some time to look at those accusations copied from the Reignite website:

Jeremy Corbyn literally:

1. Invited muslim hate preacher Sheikh Raed Salah to tea in parliament after the UK tried to deport him.


On Tuesday, 28 June, 2011, after entering the country and making an appearance at a meeting in Leicester, Salah was detained in London. His request to be released on bail while awaiting the outcome of court proceedings, despite the Home Office Secretary's decision to bar him from the country, was granted on Friday, 15 July. He was released on Monday, 18 July. A judicial review of the original June arrest took place on 30 September, 2011. The High Court ruled that Salah was entitled to damages due to "wrongful detention". In response, Theresa May sought to ban Salah. On 26 October, an immigration tribunal concluded that May had been justified in her position. Salah successfully appealed the decision when a tribunal ruled that the grounds for expelling him or denying him freedom of speech in Britain were too weak and that there was no reason to believe he was a danger to British society.

Salah found innocent (at the time, of those charges). So, any reason not to invite him to tea? Though I don't think I'd want to chat with him over a cuppa.

2. Called Salah an “honoured citizen” after he called for a ‘global caliphate’ and said ‘Allah will grant us victory’.

From what I can find, Corbyn called called Salah an honoured citizen a couple of years before Salah went well OTT with his assertions.

3. Called terror groups Hamas and Hezbollah 'friends'.

Asked on Channel 4 News in July 2015 why he had called representatives from Hamas and Hezbollah "friends", Corbyn explained, "I use it in a collective way, saying our friends are prepared to talk," and that the specific occasion he used it was to introduce speakers from Hezbollah at a Parliamentary meeting about the Middle East. He said that he does not condone the actions of either organisation:

"Does it mean I agree with Hamas and what it does? No. Does it mean I agree with Hezbollah and what they do? No. What it means is that I think to bring about a peace process, you have to talk to people with whom you may profoundly disagree ... There is not going to be a peace process unless there is talks involving Israel, Hezbollah and Hamas and I think everyone knows that".

I can maybe see where he's coming from but No, not really a satisfactory answer, IMO.

4. Refused 5 times to condemn murders by the IRA when questioned during an interview with the BBC.

Corbyn has repeatedly condemned all violence and bombings in Northern Ireland without condemning one side and not the other saying, “I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.” In 2017 Corbyn signed a motion in the House of Commons that condemned IRA violence and "extended its sympathy to the relatives of those murdered".

Are you at all interested in Maria Gatland, nee Maria McGuire? A former IRA member who had an affair with a (married) senior IRA official when the pair went on an arms buying trip around Europe. "I agreed with the shooting of British soldiers and believed the more who were killed the better... we heard late at night that a British soldier had been shot and seriously wounded in Belfast or Derry and we would hope by the morning he would be dead". She's (still) a Conservative councillor for South Croydon.

5. Said that terrorists should "not necessarily" serve their full prison term after the London Bridge attack.

Corbyn said it should depend upon what they were convicted for and whether they had been rehabilitated.

Johnson had blamed Labour, saying "The reason this killer was out on the streets was because of automatic early release which was brought in by a leftie government." The Conservatives have been in power since May, 2010. Enough time to make any changes they deemed necessary.

When Boris Johnson started playing the blame game the father of Jack Merritt, the 25-year-old who was killed in the attack, urged politicians not to use his son's death for political purposes nor to enforce "draconian" sentences. David Merritt said: "My son, Jack, who was killed in this attack, would not wish his death to be used as the pretext for more draconian sentences or for detaining people unnecessarily.

Corbyn said police "had no choice" but to shoot Khan dead as they were "stuck with a situation where there was a credible threat of a bomb belt around his body".

6. Sat on the editorial board of a magazine that praised the IRA’s Brighton bombings.

No evidence of that.

7. Voted against airstrikes on Islamic State.

Yes, on the basis that bombing would be indiscriminate and innocent civilians would be killed.

8. Attended a wreath ceremony for members of the terrorist group who carried out the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre.

In 2014 Corbyn attended a conference in Tunis. Also attending were Conservative peer Lord Sheikh, Liberal Democrat Lord Phillips, former US attorney general Ramsey Clark and Ossama Hamdan, the foreign representative of Hamas.

During the trip, Corbyn took up an invitation to join a delegation paying respects to those killed in a 1985 Israeli bombing of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) headquarters in Tunis.

Photographs suggest a wreath was laid at the base of a large statue erected in memory of the victims and that Corbyn was next to the memorial, mostly in the background, not holding a wreath.

The delegation then seems to have moved on to a cemetery three miles away which includes a monument to those killed in the attack.

It also includes graves of people accused of having links to the 1972 Munich massacre, when Palestinian group Black September killed 11 hostages from the Israeli Olympic team and a West German police officer.

Corbyn confirmed he did lay a wreath - for those who died in the 1985 bombing. But critics have pointed out that a photograph from the event appears to show him standing opposite the graves of Atef Bseiso and Salah Khalaf, two senior PLO officers who were accused of links to the Munich attack and were killed by Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service.

The standing area is quite small and there's no evidence of Corbyn laying a wreath at graves of men accused of having links to the 1972 Munich massacre. Quite possibly he wasn't even aware that he was stood in the vicinity of the graves of two men accused of terrorism - the plaque is written in the local language, not English.

9. Said he's 'not happy' with UK police or security services operating a shoot-to-kill policy.

On 22 July 2005, armed officers pinned down and repeatedly shot in the head a man they thought was a suicide bomber on a train at Stockwell tube station, south London. Police thought Jean Charles de Menezes - a citizen of Brazil - was one of four terrorists who had attacked London’s transport system the day before. In fact he was TOTALLY INNOCENT.

The two killers of soldier Lee Rigby were shot and wounded, but not killed.

The UK's police forces do not have a blanket "shoot-to-kill" policy. Official policy says firearms officers “shoot to incapacitate”. They are trained to target the centre of the chest as the quickest way to “neutralise” a suspect, even though it is highly likely that this will kill. Every armed officer has the right to shoot if that action amounts to reasonable force to protect themselves or others.

Corbyn said, "I support the use of whatever proportionate and strictly necessary force is required to save life in response to attacks of the kind we saw in Paris.”

Corbyn said police "had no choice" but to shoot Usman Khan dead as they were "stuck with a situation where there was a credible threat of a bomb belt around his body".

10. Was ‘appalled’ after Labour shadow foreign secretary Hillary Benn made a speech in favour of airstrikes against the Islamic State.

“I did not agree with it. I was appalled that MPs should clap, shout and cheer when we were deciding to go and bomb somewhere."

As above, Corbyn opposed indiscriminate bombings that would kill innocent non-combatants.

11. Had such close ties with the IRA that MI5 opened a case file on him.

You do, of course, have proof of that? Oh, it said so in the Sun, the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph. Well, there you go then. So much for the 'secret' service.

12. Attended rallies honouring IRA terrorists.

I've seen that repeated but with no detail or evidence.

13. Accepted £20,000 to appear on the Iranian regime propaganda TV channel which is banned in the UK.

Incorrect, so far as I can check. Throughout his time on the back benches the Register of Members Interests show two payments adding up to £5,000 for hosting phone-ins on Press TV. But does it matter whether it was £5,000 or £20,000? Only that the much repeated figure of £20,000 may sound worse. There was no reason why he shouldn't do this, distasteful as we may find it.

Press TV wasn't / isn't banned in the UK. Ofcom found the state broadcaster's English language outlet had breached several broadcasting licence rules over editorial control of the channel. Press TV was given two options to remain on air with BSkyB but didn't comply with either, so Ofcom revoked its licence.

On the day the Boris Johnson lambasted Jeremy Corbyn for appearing on Press TV, Boris' father appeared on Press TV. Well, that's another nice mess you've gotten me into, Stanley.

14. Rushed to the defence of a cleric who blamed Israel for 9/11 after the Church of England reprimanded them.

Stephen Sizer is a Conservative Evangelical and the former vicar of the Anglican parish of Christ Church, Virginia Water, Surrey. Sizer is known for his opposition to Christian Zionism. Around April 2012 Corbyn, then a backbench MP, wrote to  Sizer's Diocesan Bishop describing Sizer's link from his Facebook profile to an article on an anti-Jewish American site as being "a technical oversight". Corbyn wasn't alone, several prominent people wrote to Bishop Hill in Sizer's defence. Amongst them was Rabbi Professor Dan Cohn-Sherbok, emeritus professor of Judaism at Aberystwyth University, who wrote, "I have been disturbed to read about the allegations made against Stephen Sizer. These are, I believe, completely without foundation: there is simply no evidence that he is an antisemite." The Board of Deputies of British Jews formally complained to the Church of England in late October 2012 and a meeting held in October, 2013. In 2015, the Board of Deputies lodged a further complaint against Sizer, this time for posting a link - on 20 January - accusing Israel of responsibility for the 9/11 attacks in the United States.

So that was 2015, Corbyn's only known involvement was a letter in 2012. Corbyn 'rushed' to Sizer's defence? Hardly. Another one gone.

15. Insisted the Soviet Union was "no real threat" and North Korea is "not a rogue state" in a 2003 book.

I never felt threatened by the Soviet Union but I figure it was a real threat to a lot of people who lived in it, if not to the UK and if not to Corbyn. Strangely, it hasn't existed since 1991 but the right-wing media seems to find this an inconvenience and like to assert Putin's Russia is a threat. Maybe it is, but I'm really not sure what that's got to do with Corbyn.

After World War II the Soviet Union occupied the north of Korea, the Americans occupied South Korea. I'd disagree with Corbyn about North Korea. Chairman Kim Jong-un strikes me as a fruit cake. But I'm a lot more worried about the mental health - and intentions - of Donald Trump.

16. Called the assassination of Osama bin Laden a "tragedy".

Corbyn was critical of the lack of any apparent effort to put Bin Laden on trial for his crimes, saying the solution “has got to be law, not war” – and it is that which he describes as a “tragedy” saying, “There was no attempt whatsoever that I can see to arrest him, to put him on trial, to go through that process."


Undoubtedly I've wasted my time. Those people who believe the propaganada espoused by the likes of Reignite will continue to believe it because it suits and reinforces their views. It's too late for Corbyn, probably a sincere guy but one who put policy before personality whereas voters like personality (over policy?) and he didn't have what it takes. Whoever's chosen as next leader of the Labour party will face the same shit slinging. Or if the LibDems seem a a better choice to the electorate, their leader will get similar shit slung at them.

England has elected a proven liar as Prime Minister. Don't be amazed when election promises don't materialise.
« Last Edit: Sunday, 15 December, 2019 @ 05:43:02 by Maik »

Offline Jolly Roger

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Re: Truth or fake: kid sleeps on hospital floor
« Reply #6 on: Sunday, 15 December, 2019 @ 08:42:41 »
Thank you for that Maik, I knew you would have the time to do some research. Perhaps you have vindicated Corbyn, but it is history now.
Boris is not a brilliant orator and may not be entirely sincere in what he promises.
What is certain, is that we have 5 years to find out!