Author Topic: North Macedonia  (Read 1134 times)

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Offline Maik

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North Macedonia
« on: Wednesday, 13 June, 2018 @ 01:57:27 »
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Macedonia and Greece: Deal after 27-year row over a name

Greece has reached a deal on the name of its northern neighbour, which called itself Macedonia at the break-up of the former Yugoslavia.

After 27 years of talks - and many protests - they have settled on the name Republic of North Macedonia, or Severna Makedonija in Macedonian.

Under the deal, the country known at the United Nations as Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (Fyrom) will be named Severna Makedonija, or Republic of North Macedonia.

Its language will be Macedonian and its people known as Macedonians (citizens of the Republic of North Macedonia).

Will the name fly?

The aim is to get Macedonia's parliament to back an agreement before EU leaders meet for a summit on 28 June. Greece will then send a letter to the EU withdrawing its objection to accession talks and a letter to Nato too.

That will be followed by a Macedonian referendum in September or October.

If Macedonian voters back the deal, their government will then have to change the constitution, a key Greek demand.

The deal will finally have to be ratified by the Greek parliament.

That may not be straightforward. Greeks are generally opposed to any name that includes Macedonia and some political parties are unlikely to back this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44401643

Offline TonyKath

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, 13 June, 2018 @ 20:05:59 »
A major step forward, a game changer even, if it gets enough support. It's being strongly opposed by Mitsotakis of New Democracy and Ivanof, the President of FYROM, is against what he says is just an agreement between two prime ministers.

Tony

Offline Maik

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, 13 June, 2018 @ 21:13:03 »
Sure hasn't got universal support, as the comments in the brief video clip on the Independent website show:

Macedonia president refuses to sign deal with Greece changing name of country

Offline Maik

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, 13 June, 2018 @ 21:22:55 »
The full transcript of the Greece-FYROM deal

That's according to ekathimerini.com. Nineteen page .pdf, in English but haven't attempted to read it yet.

Offline TonyKath

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #4 on: Thursday, 14 June, 2018 @ 14:00:12 »
Thanks for the link, Maik. Didn't expect to say this but it is quite interesting. It's a much more comprehensive agreement than just names. It includes abandoning all claims to each other's territory and opposing all such irredentist claims by others within each country's own  territory. There is also a major concession by N. Macedonia regarding recognition of and respect towards Greek "patrimony" within its territory, effectively allowing Greece to claim Alexander the Great etc.  N. Macedonia will also abandon irredentist symbols on flags etc. i. e the Vergina Star.

No wonder there's a lot of kerfuffle on both sides.

Tony

Offline Maik

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #5 on: Friday, 25 January, 2019 @ 16:30:39 »
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Macedonia and Greece: Vote settles 27-year name row

Greek MPs have voted narrowly to back a historic agreement with Macedonia, bringing to an end a 27-year dispute over its northern neighbour's name.

The parliament in Athens agreed by 153 votes to 146 to approve the name Republic of North Macedonia, despite widespread opposition from the public.

Thousands demonstrated outside parliament on Thursday night.

Greeks have rejected Macedonia's name since its independence in 1991, as they have a region of the same name.

Opposition to the deal is strongest in the northern Greek region of Macedonia, but polls suggest more than 60% of Greeks dislike it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47002865


Still an issue between Bulgaria and FYROM: No EU accession for FYROM if it steals Bulgarian identity

Offline TonyKath

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #6 on: Friday, 25 January, 2019 @ 18:11:33 »
I thought the vote in the Vouli would be even closer than this.  I wasn't aware of the Bulgarians objections to FYROM which look a lot more drastic than what Greece was asking for from what we can now call Northern Macedonia.  Balkan politics - fwah!

Tony

Offline Maik

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #7 on: Sunday, 27 January, 2019 @ 15:46:02 »
from what we can now call Northern Macedonia.  Balkan politics - fwah!

Tony


Let's face it, the English-language media (if not world media - minus Greece) were referring to FYROM as Macedonia well before the vote, the 'Northern' bit will soon be forgotten about in all but official circles (and Greece). But as a result of the votes:

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Socialists and Democrats, Greens and United Left nominate Tsipras and Zaev for Peace Nobel Prize

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and North Macedonia Prime Minister Zoran Zaev have been nominated for the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize by the leader of the EU parliament Socialists and Democrats (S&D) group Udo Bullmann, of the Greens/European Free Alliance (EFA) Ska Keller and of the European United Left-Nordic Green Left (GUE/NGL) Gabbi Zimmer, according to exclusive information the Athens-Macedonian News Agency (ANA) secured on Saturday.
https://www.newsbomb.gr/en/story/953623/socialists-and-democrats-greens-and-united-left-nominate-tsipras-and-zaev-for-peace-nobel-prize

Dunno why but, time to time, this Tsipras bloke reminds me of that lovely Mr Blair.

Offline Bryan-in-Kilkis

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #8 on: Sunday, 27 January, 2019 @ 20:22:59 »
Can anyone imagine the Netherlands baulking at England's use of the name "Parts of Holland" in East Anglia?  Greeks are arrogant and paranoid regarding the name "Macedonia".  You cannot monopolise a name, especially when it extends beyond the present (i.e. since 1913) borders.  I have been to the Republic of Macedonia on holiday and otherwise about 40 times in the past ten years (it is half an hour’s drive away), I have many friends there and can speak their language, and it is blatantly obvious that ancient Macedonia (which was never exclusively Greek, but even often constituted an enemy of ancient Hellas) covers a large part of what will from now on be called North Macedonia.  Anyone just needs to visit the ancient site of Stobi, just off the Gevgelija-Skopje motorway, and see the ancient inscriptions inscribed by theatregoers in Latin on the seats of the amphitheatre, to understand that this was also part of ancient Macedonia (as part of the Eastern Roman Empire) a hugely long time before modern Greece was ever a twinkle in anyone’s eye.  But of course you won't find a Greek who will use the name Istanbul either (it’s “our City”, more pathetic imperialistic twaddle)...  To my mind, it is all part of a syndrome of paranoia at Greece's present state - that of a world laughing stock.  In the end, who wants to admit that their country is a repeated failure?
« Last Edit: Sunday, 27 January, 2019 @ 20:37:23 by Bryan-in-Kilkis »

Offline Maik

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Re: North Macedonia
« Reply #9 on: Thursday, 31 January, 2019 @ 03:06:13 »
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Zaev’s choice of words irks Athens

The Greek government is concerned by the insistence of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia’s Prime Minister Zoran Zaev on calling his country “Macedonia” following Greece’s approval last week of the Prespes deal changing the country’s name to North Macedonia.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/237144/article/ekathimerini/news/zaevs-choice-of-words-irks-athens

 :iroll: